WAVELAND, Miss. -- The taxman cometh.
He arrived bright and early Monday morning -- the eve of the anniversary of Hurricane Katrina -- in the form of an auction in which residents in Mississippi’s Hancock County who hadn't paid their property taxes found their land up for sale the highest bidder.
This year's auction was, predictably, mammoth.
The local Sea-Coast Echo newspaper was 58 pages on Friday, including the sports section. A full 46 of those pages were tax sale listings, printed in agate type as small as a baseball box score. There were 6,500 pieces of property listed for auction in the county, every one of them representing some kind of broken dream. At the auction, each one became someone else's new dream.
Property tax auction rules are confusing, and aside from professional bidders in attendance, it seemed very few people had a good grasp of the rules.
The auction is an annual ritual, and newcomers often get hurt because of such confusion, said county tax assessor and collector Jimmie Ladner.
Jimmie Ladner
“Year after year I try to explain it, but there's these … tales out there about how it works that just aren’t true,” he said.
Usually, the bidding takes place on the country courthouse steps. But this year, cars jammed temporary county facilities and about 200 bidders squeezed into a tiny, stuffy Quonset hut.
Misconceptions can hurt
Some bidders this year were Katrina victims who lost their former homes and were attending this year's auction in the hopes of picking up a new property for a song, hoping they could right the terrible wrong that'd been done to them. We met a threesome Sunday night who were pinning their hopes on the auction, expecting to pick up a piece of property for just the tax bill price of $500-$900 in order to get a chance at a fresh start.
Instead, they are likely to be hurt yet again.
Tax auction buyers rarely ever get their hands on the property they bid on, Ladner said. As the professionals know, buyers are really bidding on the interest payments that will inevitably be paid by the delinquent property owner. Pay too much, and a bidder is almost guaranteed to lose money.
Here’s how it works: The delinquent owner gets to stay on their property for two years past the auction date. At any point during the two years following the auction, the original owner can pay off the auction winner and retain the property rights. All it takes is the price of the original tax bill, plus 1.5 percent interest per month.
For an investor, that can be a tidy 18 percent annual interest rate. But from that return, a buyer must subtract the amount “overbid” at auction for the property. An auction winner who pays 10 percent over the tax bill can get at most an 8 percent profit. And the buyer can actually lose money if the property holder pays the bill after only a few months.
The process is repeated after a year passes, when a second auction is held on that delinquent property. If a different person wins the second auction, both can ultimately make a claim to the property, though the first winner gets first dibs. That rarely happens, however.
Very few properties eventually “mature” and roll over to the new owner, Ladner said. Only around 50 of the 5,000 properties auctioned this week are likely to change hands because almost everyone pays off their bills as the two-year deadline approaches, he said. The bills that aren’t paid almost always end up being connected to worthless property – swamps, for example.
Developer doesn't expect to get land
Vic Planetta
Real estate developer Vic Planetta spent about $20,000 on 40 properties by 11 a.m. Monday before leaving for a similar auction in Biloxi. He said he didn’t expect to end up with a single piece of land out of the deals.
“The interest is great, though,” he said. “Where else can you get 18 percent?”
In fact, after years of real estate auctions, he’s never ended up with a piece of property, he said.
So bidding on tax sale property is no way to get a new home, no way to plan for a future, and certainly no place for amateurs to take on professional auction buyers, which is what happened Monday morning,
The problem was obvious right from the start, as auction prices rose to a 10 percent premium about tax bills, and above.
One place with an outstanding $816 bill was bid up to $900, for example. A $707.47 bill went for $800. And a $41.26 bill went for $70, nearly double its price.
"I've never seen it be like this," said Nuncy Perniciaro, a bidder who has won auction properties in the past. After a few hours, he stepped outside for a breath of fresh air as he waited to bid on a single parcel – the property he had won the prior year.
Perniciaro incorrectly believed he had to win the auction for this property again this year to have rights to it. But he was hardly alone in his confusion; all the amateur bidders we spoke with believed the process of winning a property outright took three years instead of two years.
Among the amateurs were professional bidders sent into Hancock County by corporations all over the country. They come with a budget of perhaps $100,000 and instructions to bid on hundreds of properties while making sure their net winning don’t exceed 7 or 8 percent of the starting price, Ladner said. That way, any gains will easily balance any losses, and the firm is sure to make a decent profit.
Amateurs at risk
In that environment, individuals bidding on one or two properties can easily get burned.
The idea behind the tax auction, Ladner said, is to raise necessary funds for schools, roads and other government projects. The newspaper listings also get the attention of delinquent property owners -- nearly 1,000 paid their taxes at the last minute to avoid being subject to the tax sale, Ladner said.
Those properties that are auctioned get the county immediate cash instead of unpaid bills, and even yields an immediate 5 to 10 percent premium.
This year’s tax sale is expected to raise about $1.2 million. Selling off 5,000 property tax bills will take so long, that bidders and auctioneers will be yelling until at least Thursday, and maybe into Friday, before all the properties are sold, Ladner said.
No one knows for sure, but county officials believe about 20 percent of the unpaid tax bills are Katrina-related, given that there’s about a 20 percent jump in the number of properties at auction from last year. Some owners died in the storm; others left the region and have yet to return. The county’s population is still down at least a third from before Hurricane Katrina.
And in the more ravaged areas, like Waveland’s beach area, it’s nearly impossible for country officials to find the right taxpayer. Nearly 10,000 property tax bills – or about 20 percent, Ladner said -- came back to the county marked “Return to Sender” and address unknown.
Other residents who’ve received insurance settlements or grants that paid off their property mortgage don’t realize they must now pay property taxes directly to the county.
“Most people just pay their taxes through their mortgage payment, they know they have to pay their taxes directly this year,” Ladner said.
Of course, there are those who just can’t pay their taxes this year because their lives have been so disrupted by Hurricane Katrina., but even speculators bidding on those properties don’t necessarily have a great investment. Many owners are simply waiting for Small Business Administration Loans or state grants to come through. When they do, the tax bill will likely be paid, and an investor who paid a 10 percent premium will likely lose money.
Still, there are those who were simply aghast at the massive listing of tax delinquencies in Friday’s edition of the paper – and at the entire auction process.
“I had an elderly woman who came into my office very upset and said, ‘How can you do this after all we’ve been through,’ ” Ladner said. She had paid her tax bill, but she was worried about her neighbors. “I just told her, ‘Because the county needs the money.’"
A year later, volunteers shine
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If only there were as much oil off the coast of Biloxi/Gulfport/New Orleans (where actually there is some but not as much) as is in the Middle East - you'd see s ton of federal dollars being spent there, then!
Jane Doe, Manassas, VA (Sent Aug 29, 2006 9:59:41 AM)
I don't live in a flood area, so no, I don't have flood insurance. If I lived in an area 10 feet below sea level, you can bet I would. I do live in an area that may be hit by earthquakes, and yes I have earthquake insurance. I don't think the U.S. should be paying to rebuild anything in Lebanon, and as far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't pay to rebuild anything in New Orleans either. If you live on the coast in range of a hurricane, you're in a potential flood plain. I know the government underwrites the flood insurance, but that doesn't mean that we should pay out on people to DID NOT CARRY IT. By your logic, I should just cancel all the insurance I have on my house, cars, life, my medical insurance, everything... when something bad happens, let the government bail me and my family out. While I'm at it, I could just stop saving for retirement, let the government take care of me. I'm tired of paying my taxes to see it wasted on support for foreign countries, large corporations, and people in this country who are too lazy to work, or who didn't think about covering themselves in case of a natural disaster.
Thomas, Salt Lake CIty, UT (Sent Aug 29, 2006 10:38:44 AM)
If you READ the article it clearly states the the owner has 2 YEARS to pay off the tax bill. The property owner can also continue to live on the property for 2 YEARS! No one is losing their property to the evil profiteers, lol!
Mike Thompson - Bloomfield Hills, MI (Sent Aug 29, 2006 11:44:37 AM)
I see a lot of discontent in the messages here. Here lays the fault we vote these crooked skimming son of a dogs in every voting oppurtunity. We don't research we vote what 3% of the richest people tell us we need to do. Evil prevails when honest people do nothing. Our political leaders are so corrupt it is a matter of everyday business to us. We live in a country that spends more money then we have income year after year. It's accepted as policy. We spent enough on the war it could of payed the projected short comings of SSI down. They ransack SSI and we all stand around. We all are part of the problem. How much of the money alloted for the hurricanes victims do you actually think will reach the hands of people who need it. One scheme after another. All this to say next time you vote think about what your voting for. Its not the person it's the platform. We need a business man not a politician to start cleaning up this mess. Even local Govn't it has to start somewhere.
Dennis G, Small town, Texas (Sent Aug 29, 2006 11:49:30 AM)
Thomas in Salt lake City - you are not paying attention. We aren't 10 feet below sea level! We are sitting on the highest piece of land on the entire Gulf Coast. My home was over one hundred years old and hadn't had water in it, even during Camille. A year ago today, it was washed away by Katrina. My daughter's home in Pass Christian was raised 14 feet high on concrete pillars - they found bits and pieces of it more than half a mile away. Like so many, you are conflating two different disasters - the natural one that hit the Mississippi Gulf Coast and the man-made one that destroyed New Orleans.
Sherry Schwabacher, BSL (but currently in Fayetteville GA) (Sent Aug 29, 2006 12:48:01 PM)
Do we live in AMERICA or somewhere else?
HH, Hayward, California (Sent Aug 29, 2006 2:34:39 PM)
Sherry... while I agree it is tragic that people lost their homes, I don't feel that it is the governments responsibility to cover their losses. I don't have a problem with the government helping out with the evacuation, and temporary housing, but we should not just give tax payer money to people to compensate them for their losses (if we forgive the taxes owed, that's what it would be). If we start doing that, it will never end. My neighbors house burned down 2 years ago... it had never burned down before, and was 55 years old... nobody paid them for their losses. Now you might argue that it's not the same thing, but you would be wrong... it is. It doesn't matter how long your house sat there without flooding, and that a once in a century storm blew your house down; I still shouldn't have to pay for it. Like I said before, if you live on the coast in range of a hurricane, you should anticipate that one in a hundred shot.
Thomas, Salt Lake CIty, UT (Sent Aug 29, 2006 3:09:50 PM)
If I had lived in the year 1840 (for example) and went around saying something like, "If the blacks are unhappy with their current conditions, they should have anticipated their capture back in Africa and not gotten caught.".....I'd be an a**hole.
Devlin, Indiana (Sent Aug 29, 2006 3:53:03 PM)
Please just READ the article. Nobody's losing their land or homes because they cannot pay the taxes! This is not any different than any tax auction that happens in every county in every state in the US. People are showing up at these tax auctions with the misconception that they can bid on tax-delinquent properties and snatch them up for the taxes owed, and that's not how it works! The landowners with delinquent taxes are having their property taxes paid; the county is getting the money it needs to operate by having the taxes paid; and the people paying the taxes are making money on interest. The landowner is getting two years to pay the delinquent tax bill before losing his property even becomes a possibility. Very few properties ever change hands in this way. Two years is plenty of time to get one's finances in order to secure the funding necessary to pay the tax bill. The tax bill yields to no man. Everyone has to pay their taxes, period. The images of heartless tax collectors evicting helpless families and crying children into the streets to fend for themselves is a false perception.
Mike Scheid, Long Beach, Miss. (Sent Aug 29, 2006 3:54:16 PM)
To Thomas,
For a man that is surrounded by 4 corners of land with a great lake in the middle of course you would take that stance, lets hope one day severe rain storms dont flood that little lake near your city and flood you out, or a severe snow storm. But in the meantime, as someone has said, these people are hard working people who have their own little piece of the American dream and that is their home. Some can afford to pay the insurance and some cannot. But if you read above you will see that most of them have the insurance, but of course the insurance company main mission is to make money not pay out money, so they will do what they can to not pay these people for the damage to their homes. And they paid their premiums like they were suppose to , but now the company says sorry cant help you, so of course they are going to turn to their government to help. Now you are worried about your tax dollars helping them, but about your tax dollars being spent sending men to a country for oil? I guess that is okay. I pray that no natural disaster ever comes your way, because then those of us trying to get you to see the other picture will just reiterate your words to your face and walk away and leave you to the ruins of your home.
Jane Doe, New Orleans, LA (Sent Aug 29, 2006 4:30:24 PM)
Get up off that chair, and go help!!!!! Our top politicians are placed by the voters, every election. Between times what are you prepared to do to change the situation. The people vote with a ballot AND a dollar. If corporate greed is the problem in disaster areas, don't buy their products. And don't use distance as an excuse, there are volunteer programs within your community and people that need help
Kirby (Sent Aug 29, 2006 5:15:22 PM)
Thomas, in Salt Lake. You really should enroll in a reading comprehension course. This whole series on Rising from Ruin is about Waveland and Bay St. Louis MS. It is NOT about NOLA. Your are either really confused geographically or do not comprehend what you are reading. Nowhere on the MS coast is below sea level. And the article makes no mention of a govt. handout to anybody. It's about a tax lien sale that happens every year in every community in this country. I think you are posting your rhetoric on the wrong comment board.
Ken, Alabama (Sent Aug 29, 2006 5:47:04 PM)
Thomas, I do see your point and I think that you have a valid point. But it's easy to say in hindsight that everyone who flooded should have had flood insurance.
In my view, part of the problem is the "100 year storm". Katrina was not a 100-year storm. But prior to Katrina, there were two factors that determined if you needed flood insurance - did you flood during Camille? Are you in a flood zone? If the answer to both questions was no, then you did not need flood insurance.
If the question had been phrased differently and if people understood what the flood zones represented, I think more people would have had flood insurance. Most people were under the assumption that if you weren't in a flood zone, then you wouldn't flood.
Granted, each of us has the responsibility to have understood this and to have made a sound decision, but we are like everyone else - jobs, kids, busy lives - and when the insurance agent recommends against getting the extra insurance then we trust his recommendation because he deals with it every day. And in defense of the insurance agents, many of them also flooded and probably many of those also didn't have flood insurance.
It's not so much a question of what to do with the results of this storm, but what to do with the rest of the country. How many people outside of LA & MS learned from our mistakes? I am afraid that it is a very small number.
Erica, Pass Christian, MS (Sent Aug 29, 2006 6:25:38 PM)
I read through most of these comments and must say that so many of you have good, valid points. With regard to flood insurance and flood zones, it just wasn't necessary to have it. I live in flood zone c in Hancock county and do not have it, probably won't get it. During the storm I think I was on the island high point of homes that did not flood in Diamonhead. I hope the tax revenues do the county some good. Our schools are missing teachers and band directors; our law enforcement agencies (in all the coastal counties) are in trailers and other temporary operating facilities and on the whole are inadequate at best. Today there is still almost nothing to go to or do in Hancock county. Crime is up and a very high percentage of arrests are a result of out siders "looking for work". I truly hope that these people don't loose their homes to a tax lien. That would be sad. We also can't just stop living. Thank god for Wal Mart. They opened a few days before Thanksgiving last year and man was it nice to have groceries close by. I just wish the rest of Bay and Waveland had the resources to do the same.
Jason Thompson, Diamondhead, MS (Sent Aug 29, 2006 7:55:48 PM)
I agree with you Dennis, people keep voting these people into office without thinking about the real issues. People get distracted by hot button issues and don't think about what is happening to there little piece of the world. More and More people are slowly waking up to the fact that all of these promises that where quoted to them from politicians where just broken.
William Shadow, Seattle, Wash (Sent Aug 29, 2006 8:41:10 PM)
Tom in Utah, the Mississippi Coast is not where New Orleans is located. You are speaking of New Orleans. Bay St. Louis and Waveland are in the state of Mississippi on the Gulf Coast. New Orleans is in the state of Louisiana and is not on the Gulf Coast. The state of Louisiana is a Gulf Coast State, but the city of New Orleans is not on the Gulf Coast. New Orleans is a port on the Mississippi River, not the Gulf. New Orleans is below sea level, but the Mississippi state Coast is well above sea level. Honestly, why don't people like you invest in a course on geography. You can find one online, I'll bet.
Jane, Southern Mississippi (Sent Aug 29, 2006 11:05:39 PM)
Thomas from Salt Lake City says that he doesn;t have
flood insurance because he doesn't live in a flood plain.
He just made the same mistake as anyone who lived in Flood Zone C in Hancock County made if they didn't have flood insurance. They didn't live in a flood plain either, at least as defined (prestorm) by FEMA and the insurance companies.
It's an easy mistake to make, isn't it, Thomas from
Salt Lake City.
I lived in Flood Zone C in Bay Saint Louis, and got flood insurance anyway. Thank the deity of your choice. Outside of the government's underwrtiting of the flood insurance program, I don't have my hand in the wallet of the man known as Thomas from Salt Lake City.
And now I live somewhere else and also have flood insurance even though I dn not need it, thereby insuring that I do not unduly have my grubby paws in the pockets of Thomas from Salt Lake City.
Now Thomas from Salt Lake City does not have flood insurance, because he doesn't live in a flood plain, just like I didn't live in a flood plain, and just as I continue not living in a flood plain.
But _I_ have flood insurance.
Maybe Thomas from Salt Lake City should get some, so as to keep his high horse from tumbling. After all, if there's a flash flood in Salt Lake City, I would hate to read how Thomas from Salt Lake City lost everything and had no chance to recoup his losses. I wouldn't want to see his hands in my wallet, nothing
personal you understand.
j., formerly of bsl (Sent Aug 30, 2006 8:21:28 AM)
Kick you while you are down --- is the new motto of the U.S. Government? Our founding fathers are spinning in their graves. Our country deserves God's severe judgement for our greed, selfishness and allowing the government to become our master instead of our servant. See the United States Constitution! Note who is supposed to be in charge ---- WE THE PEOPLE
Preamble to the U.S. Constitution
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Allison McGill (Sent Aug 30, 2006 3:16:32 PM)
Jane from Southern Mississippi--You go girl!
My heart is sick for the victims of Katrina. I can't believe that there are still some who are trying to profit from all this. What ever happened to 'Be The Change You Want to See? it is going to take a long time for this to heal.
Katrina Victims--Keep Strong Still. There is some god that came from all this maybe we just haven't seen it yet. :)
angeleyes Blue, Albuquerque, NM (Sent Aug 30, 2006 3:31:39 PM)
By the way, Thomas in Salt Lake, you say that "this country has a budget to meet". Where the heck have you been? Any budget and fiscal responsibility that we had has been blown out the window and we are now billions of dollars in debt because of money thrown away in foreign countries and on unnecessary wars. That doesn't seem to bother you but using tax dollars to maintain and support our own country does.
And I'd like to add my support to the suggestions above that you get yourself some flood insurance. I live about 50 miles south of you and know for a fact that floods and mudslides are rather common in Utah.
Cathy, Mapleton UT (Sent Aug 30, 2006 4:02:51 PM)
If I could go back to the original article about the Tax Sale in Hancock County MS, the 80% of the properties listed are not a result of Katrina. If you ask the people in the Tax Collectors office you will probably find that a large number of those 80% are listed every year, the fact is a number of taxpayers stay 1 year behind on their taxes, rarley do they even get to the second year.
We demand quality schools, decent roads, great police and fire protection, taxes are how government fund those projects. In Mississippi property taxes are a part of the budget, like it or not it is a fact of life, but no matter where you live you have to pay taxes to cover those costs.
The law says you have to pay, I know it would be great if those Katrina affected properties could get a pass this year but there is not anything in the law that will allow for that.
There is also nothing in the law that says the property owner has to be the one to pay the bill. If anyone really wants to help you could contact the Tax Collectors office in Hancock County and offer to pay the taxes for someone that has lost every thing to this storm. You may be surprised to see how little some of these tax bills are.
Gary Jones, Hancock County, Mississippi (Sent Aug 31, 2006 12:08:20 PM)
There is something I do not understand about the value of real estate here in the wake of a natural disaster. Is the property valued at the pre-storm rate or is it reassested at post-storm value? What was the worth September 1, 2005? And what about the services that tax goes to fund? Are they restored?
God bless those of you having to rebuild your lives.
Rick, N.L.R., Ar. (Sent Sep 1, 2006 5:23:00 PM)
It varies by county - in Hancock county (where Waveland is), the damaged/destroyed properties were reassessed to post-storm value (I'm not sure if the taxes were prorated). I believe that undamaged properties are the same, despite their increased post-storm value.
As for services - between losses of property and sales taxes, not to mention loss of county/city property (buildings, vehicles, equipment), I don't think many services have been restored.
Interestingly, in Harrison County we paid full taxes through August, and then we were not taxed on any property loss not covered by insurance. So, since I had flood insurance and was paid for my losses, I had to pay full taxes on my slab. This year's taxes should be just for the property and should not include the house.
Erica, Pass Christian, MS (Sent Sep 7, 2006 6:06:35 PM)
Between this article and the many posts, one thing is clear--much help is still needed in Hancock County, the rest of the Mississippi Gulf Coast, and the rest of the areas pummelled by Katrina and Rita.
Even though owners whose property is sold to collect taxes have 2 years to pay the back taxes and reclaim the property, it seems that this would be difficult to do in the aftermath of a massive disaster in which not only have you lost your home and other possessions but also a job because your workplace was destroyed as well, and perhaps even if you were able to find a new job it might not pay as well as the previous one. So I wonder how many will afford to buy back their properties?
Anyway, it's time not only for everyone living and struggling to rebuild on the Gulf Coast and in other areas affected by Katrina and Rita, but also everyone else who wants to see them recover and bring their communities back, to let MSNBC know they want both MSNBC's Gulf Coast News coverage and the regular reports and updates on Rising from Ruin brought back.
While they may be old news to lesser Americans including members of the Bush Administration, Congress, and the mainstream media, the storms and the recovery effort should not be allowed to completely fade from America's consciousness. And survivors must not be forgotten.
Take a look at the Bush Administration, which seems to feel that $110 billion, much of which is tied up in bureaucracy, should be enough for the Gulf Coast. While anybody who reads these reports or posts from people on the ground in the area or coverage in area newspapers' websites knows nothing could be further from the truth.
We must let MSNBC know that the recovery effort is still NEWS, that life in the storm zone ISN'T O.K. or back to normal, and that much more help is needed if the region is to fully recover. And demand that MSNBC bring the regular coverage on Rising from Ruin back.
Olivia Elizabeth Burdon, Peoria, Ill. (Sent Oct 8, 2006 3:08:15 PM)
Here's another spin on how the Fed's $110 Billion is going towards the ravaged Gulf Coast. I used to work for the Army Corps of Engineers and was deployed to Keesler AFB in Biloxi for 30 days. Now understand I was not an actual Government employee but rather a contractor providing direct IT support services. Anyway the funding Bush proposed for the LA/MS coast recovery effort not only , I firmly believe, was intended to directly affect both the residents (either displaced or otherwise), the sub-contractors for debris removal, ROW clearing and the like. But also the government employee's salaries while being deployed. Each and every gov employee was on a 7 day a week, 12 hours a day work schedule. Now for the average USACE fed that pulls about 55K per year.. think about how that adds up. As well as their pensions and expenses. While I was there I saw fed workers who were being setup in condos that were being billed to the gov at over $200 per day. Granted there weren't many hotels open at that time and the FEMA contractors took a large percentage of those, (Beau Rivage). Certainly those people who were able to stay in, what I would call, luxury 2-3 bedroom suites could have been just as comfortable in a FEMA trailors...especially since so many sat unused in fields (outside Hope, AR and south of Hattiesburg, MS to name a few). Honestly it wouldn't have mattered to me either way although for the record I was housed on base. But we weren't there to be comfortable, we were there for a job.
Then not to mention all the debris truck drivers that tried to cheat the system, which required more people employed to audit them. And actually there are still quite a number of USACE personnel deployed to the coast that are still trying to resolve invoices. I know of roughly 15 people that that is all they have been doing for the past few months. Inputting and in some cases, auditting invoices.
While I'm not the biggest fan of the federal government with all it's waste and excess. Some of you need to realize the scope of this disaster other than what you saw on Fox News, or Yahoo! bulletins. This was the single largest disaster our country has ever faced. The feds were not prepared for something of this magnitude. So of course there would be shortcomings, wrongings, and stuff that appears to have been just plain wrong. Crooked people exist everywhere just like idiots and opinions. But as a few of the other posters above said.. Only we the people can change that. And what are the suggestions? Elections?, informally banned trade with certain companys? Or revolution?
Will we do it? Any of it? Probably not. People fear change and the unknown.
Rick James, Miss (Sent Dec 1, 2006 11:35:48 AM)
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